Obama behind VP talks stories? Now I'm totally confused

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsm emo.com/2008/05/hillary_accuses_obama_ca mpaign.php

TPM is reporting that Hillary is not only denying the stories that she has been seeking a VP pick with Obama, but apparently accusing his campaign of being behind these rumors as a way of prematurely ending the nomination contest.

OK, so I'm totally confused.  Granted, gossip has never been a strong suit of mine, but I'll play out a few scenarios until their logical breakdown in my mind.

1)  Hillary is right.  Obama is just saying that Hillary has been asking him for the VP slot.  Why do this?  It just seems to cheese off Clinton supporters at a pretty critical time.  The benefit may be to end this sooner and then let Clinton supporters come back to the fold afterward.  But did he really think this would work without a backlash from Clinton or her campaign?  That is either dumb politics or extremely brave.

2)  Hillary is lying.  She really has been in discussions with Obama, but since he turned her down she now has to deny that the conversations ever took place.  Oh brother.  Is this really what we've sunk to?  I think this one is false because, well, we're not in eighth grade anymore.

3)  There is a third party which is spreading these rumors.  Again, this seems incredible to me.  Who would have an interest in having this story spread?  It doesn't seem to benefit the Republicans.  It also doesn't seem to benefit either the Obama or the Clinton camps.  I suppose it could be a way of placing pressure on Obama to take Clinton as a VP.  A sloppy, awkward, indirect way, but a way nonetheless.  Uh, I'll put this one in the "unlikely" pile.

4)  The stories began as rumors and have taken on a life of their own.  This makes the most sense to me.  Hillary doesn't seem to be conceding, so why start the negotiation process now?  Also, I believe that she knows that the VP slot is not necessarily the best place to further her political career.

I'm sure I've missed some points.  Let me know what you think.



Display:


Re: Obama behind VP talks stories? Now I'm total (2.00 / 1)

It was Col. Mustard, in the Library, with the noose.

Seriously...I don't even try to follow this stuff.  Candidates are "going to the convention" up to the minute they announce they're dropping out.  The double talk and misdirection is plenty to discourage my interest in who's doing what.  


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:18:14 PM EST

Obama behind VP talks stories? YEP (2.00 / 1)

Gee, which way do you think?  Obama camp releases story "someone" from the Clinton camp is talking to us about a VP scenario.  This along with his "top secret" premature search.  Who do you think gave that story to the press?

2nd.  If they actually were having these supposed secret talks, Obama surely shown his absolute lack of integrity to issue a news release on it.

ding ding ding ding....obama is the loser.


by LindaSFNM on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:18:17 PM EST

Re: Obama behind VP talks stories? YEP (2.00 / 1)

But would he really be so politically naive as to think this would never see the light of day?  It's such a slam dunk for Clinton if it's true that I have a hard time believing he'd put himself in that position.


by the mollusk on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:20:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama behind VP talks stories? YEP (2.00 / 0)

Yes, we know, every breath that Obama draws into his body is somehow an insult to Clinton.  


by rfahey22 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:23:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama behind VP talks stories? YEP (2.00 / 0)

The presidential nominee is the loser? That makes no sense.


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by spacemanspiff on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:23:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama behind VP talks stories? YEP (2.00 / 0)

Except that your reasoning is ridiculous and makes no sense.

there's nothing to be gained here for obama


by CaptainMorgan on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:36:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama behind VP talks stories? (none / 0)

Maybe some of her campaign officials have had low-level talks with his, and she wasn't aware of them.  Or, she hasn't given up on the nomination but also wants VP if that doesn't happen (and having rumors of seeking the VP slot would torpedo her remaining chance at the nomination).  I don't know, it doesn't make a lot of sense.


by rfahey22 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:20:53 PM EST

Obama behind VP talks stories? (none / 0)

Hillary's surrogates are talking to Obama's surrogates about the possibility of a deal, and the candidates and senior staff are ignorant about what is going on.  That's my best guess.


by IncognitoErgoSum on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:22:47 PM EST

Re: Obama behind VP talks stories? (none / 0)

Could be. Or maybe Bill is off the reservation or just realized how this looks -- like they know HRC can't get the nomination.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:29:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama behind VP talks stories? (none / 0)

The Bid Dog off the rez?  Never.  When has he ever done anything like that?!?

;)


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:37:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There are a number of conflicting stories (2.00 / 1)

circulating about this - each with 'well connected anonymous sources' that supposedly 'confirm' them.

My take: it's a relatively slow news cycle, ergo, rumors abound.


by phoenixdreamz on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:23:06 PM EST

Re: There are a number of conflicting stories (none / 0)

Nope. There was an interview on the record from one of Clinton's big fundraisers. I have the link and a quote below.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:28:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ok, but I still don't see (none / 0)

any evidence from his remarks that high level talks between the camps have taken place which is what this diarist is trying to ascertain.

Thanks for the link btw.


by phoenixdreamz on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:42:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama behind VP talks stories? (none / 0)

Did you catch the late update to the story?

"Late Update: It should be pointed out that the CNN story actually is explicitly sourced to people in Clinton's inner circle. What's more, Hillary's top finance chair today pushed the idea of her as veep."


by rfahey22 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:27:31 PM EST

Re: Obama behind VP talks stories? Now I'm total (none / 0)

With all the stories around on this, including in Time and the NY Times, which have Bill Clinton involved in pushing the vp talk, I think that the hubbie has been talking this up.

Also this slimeball who tried to bribe the Young Democrats superdelegates:

In a move that could foreshadow a public push from the Hillary forces to get Barack Obama to invite her on the ticket, Hillary's top campaign fundraising official said in an interview that there's a "risk" that Hillary's political and financial supporters won't get behind Obama in time for him to win in November if she's passed over for the veep slot.

The fundraiser, businessman Hassan Nemazee, is Hillary's leading finance chair and one of the most influential money men in the party. He's the first prominent Hillary campaign official to raise the possiblity of an Obama loss should she not be invited on the ticket, and his comments suggests that this argument could emerge as central to any Clinton camp push to make her veep.
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsm emo.com/2008/05/hillarys_top_fundraiser_ says_t.php


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:27:47 PM EST

#1 (2.00 / 1)

the BO and a willing press....

float the idea to gauge public opinion and delegitimize her ongoing fight, then when its offered publicly the onus is on her to take or refuse the offer and not matter what BO appears to unify party.

god - this guy a is tactical genius!


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:34:07 PM EST

Re: #1 (2.00 / 1)

It's really impressive that he managed to slip one of his people into a top role in the Clinton campaign as her finance chair, for the sole purpose of backing up this story when the time came.  That man is a mastermind!


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by mistersite on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:37:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: #1 (none / 0)

so, sort of like a backhanded trial balloon?  i don't know.  still seems too easy for clinton to refute it and then he looks like a jerk.  i'd be surprised if he did something that reckless.


by the mollusk on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:37:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: #1 (2.00 / 1)

see he only looks like a jerk when its a rumour (not real)...  when he offers it (and it becomes a reality) then he looks like a unifier no matter what she does.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:42:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: #1 (none / 0)

hmmm.  interesting.  but why have the rumors be that she is seeking the VP slot?  why not have the rumors be that he is considering offering it to her?  


by the mollusk on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:58:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: #1 (none / 0)

two reasons.  first his supporters will think that she forced her way onto the ticket (for those that dont want her) and two as rumour it is innocuous therefore does not really piss her supporters off.  what an incredible move!


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:07:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nevermind the fact that it's hogwash (none / 0)

Obama won't ask her, because that repudiates his entire platform of change.

Any meetings they are having are to negotiate the terms of her complete surrender and disarmament.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:44:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nevermind the fact that it's hogwash (none / 0)

the silver lining in this story for me is that she may realize that VP just isn't the place for her.  which probably also means that she's told Mark Penn to shove it.  which means the world just got a little brighter.


by the mollusk on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:46:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nevermind the fact that it's hogwash (none / 0)

Eeesh.  We can only hope.

If nothing else positive comes out of this campaign, I will die satisfied if Mark Penn us sued for ethical violations, loses every penny, and never works again.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:49:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nevermind the fact that it's hogwash (none / 0)

I disagree- he is going to have to at least seriously consider offering it to her, and then to some of her stronger supporters to show he is willing to heal the wounds.


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:08:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He doesn't *need* to (none / 0)

Theres no bylaw or rule that says he'll have to.

You could argue that he should consider her, but it's not a need, nor is it, in my estimation, a liklihood.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:13:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He doesn't *need* to (none / 0)

I think that Dems who want to win in November consider it a necessity. Not being willing to offer it to her, may be the difference between him getting the nomination and not getting it.


by glitterannebegay on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:22:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: #1 (none / 0)

I'm not sure if this is snarky or not.  I'm going to go with snarky, because you're level-headed.  I mean, her finance chair is already on record saying that she should be VP...


by rfahey22 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:41:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: #1 (none / 0)

no snark at all - sincere.  if i am right - this guy is a fricken genius.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:43:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: #1 (none / 0)

Oh, oh, dear lord...


by rfahey22 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:44:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: #1 (none / 0)

im confused.  am i saying something wrong here?  somebody is obviously leaking this, and it makes no sense strategically for it to be from HRC or the repubs.  my theory makes sense and is an incredibly politically savvy move to achieve both party unity and an end to the race.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:48:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: #1 (none / 0)

Why does it have to be intentional on either of their parts?  What about some anonymous staffer who just wants to feel important for a day?  All it does is antagonize Clinton and further the divide.  I don't see what he gains by it at all, and since CNN and Giordano yesterday both report that the overtures came from the Clinton camp, including her finance chair and possibly Bill Clinton, I doubt Obama has a double agent embedded amongst her campaign staff spreading the rumors.

Occam's Razor.  It was likely just some chatty staffer.


by rfahey22 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:55:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: #1 (none / 0)

because trust me - i work in media - 'leaks' are always deliberate.  and i disagree. he has A LOT to gain.  namely gauging public opinion, getting his supporters to think she forced her way onto a ticket, delegitimizing her continuing fight and when he does offer it publicly - ultimately appearing to unify the party.

in the meantime - floating this does not antagonize her supporters only her.  brilliant i tell you - brilliant!


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:04:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: #1 (none / 0)

To be clear: I understand that you are saying it is a good political move... my question is are you supporting or decrying it as a good political move?


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:09:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: #1 (none / 0)

i dont particularly like it since i support HRC but i greatly admire the strategic brilliance of BO and his campaign.  seriously - the stuff of legends.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:19:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Huh (none / 0)

We really need McCain to blow his top over something and get the media's mind off this nonsense.

I'll spin the wheel... abortion.  Go.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:39:17 PM EST

Re: Huh (none / 0)

Speaking of McCain, did you catch his press release  yesterday on the GI Bill? Boy was it a nasty one.  I'm looking forward to a BIG eruption,


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:45:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I saw tidbits (none / 0)

The guy didn't take long to start mudslinging.  Sadly he sees Obama beating him like a redheaded stepchild on foreign policy as Obama "going negative" first.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:47:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama behind VP talks stories? (none / 0)

Mike Gravel is floating the rumors to distract from the blimp armada he and Ron Paul are building.


The primaries are over!
Focus on McCain
by really not a troll on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:40:26 PM EST

Re: Obama behind VP talks stories? (none / 0)

Oh yeah, sure, a blimp armada.  Shyah.

snark


by the mollusk on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:44:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dread zeppelins! (none / 0)

Jesse Ventura for Secretary of Ass-Stomping.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:45:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama behind VP talks stories? (none / 0)

I can't remember the last time I laughed so heartily at something on this site. Thanks. It's a great image.


by Mobar on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:53:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama behind VP talks stories? Now I'm total (none / 0)

I don't have time to write a diary on this, but Obama gave a brilliant speech on inter-American relations today in front of a Cuban-American group in Florida:

http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2008 /05/23/14/Obama_Speech.source.prod_affil iate.56.pdf


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:46:22 PM EST

Re: Obama behind VP talks stories? Now I'm total (none / 0)

Option Five:

Hillary staffers, knowing their best chance for a job in an Obama administration lies with Clinton on the VP slot, created these rumors for their own benefit.

The rumors probably grew out of Obama's campaign saying something like "...Hillary Clinton is welcome to throw her hat into the ring via the VP vetting process that we are using for everyone."


by MNPundit on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:03:00 PM EST

People Like Drama. (none / 0)

 If I were to take a guess, I would say that there have been discussions about the need for each to put the other on the ticket. Clinton has already signaled she's fine with this. Democrats who are concerned with winning are very likely telling Obama he needs to as well. Obama's camp has previously signaled they have no interest in Clinton. However, the post-primary polls over the past few weeks are almost certainly having an impact on Mr. I Can Get Her Voters But She Can't Get Mine. So this little solo is anxiety from someone in obama's camp that they are going to need to put Clinton on the ticket. Obama and his supporters have been harsh on Clinton and so this will be a tough journey for them. But he is going to need her supporters and this may be the only way for him to get them onboard.


by glitterannebegay on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:14:34 PM EST

CNN's report from this morning says... (none / 0)

"Several close friends and supporters of Hillary Clinton tell CNN they are pushing for a 'graceful exit strategy' that would allow the Clinton and Obama camps to come together, and for the New York senator to save face should she fail to become the Democratic nominee for president."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/


by Liberal Monk on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:37:46 PM EST


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